Frustrated Fred: When “Anonymous” Feedback Shows Up in Your Review

Kendra: 00:00:08

Hello and welcome to the HR Mediators Podcast where we navigate workplace conflict one coffee chat at a time. Our goal is to help you build skills to better navigate challenging workplace conflicts with compassion, grace and ease.

I'm Kendra, certified HR Professional and Mediator.

Karen: 00:00:25

And I'm Karen, also a certified HR Professional and Mediator and founder of Common Ground HR.

Together we bring over 30 years of HR experience and 15 years of mediation practice and we have teamed up to answer your questions around workplace conflict. Grab your coffee and let's get started.

A quick note about the scope of this podcast we are certified Mediators with deep experience in HR and conflict resolution. We are not lawyers, therapists or licensed counselors. Nothing shared here should be considered professional advice related to any of those fields.

Think of these scenarios as food for thought. Take what resonates, leave what doesn't, and be sure to trust your own judgment.

Kendra: 00:01:00

Thanks, Karen. For anyone new here, we start each episode by reading a scenario inspired by real workplace experiences.

To protect privacy, we change all identifying details, adjust timelines, and blend similar accounts. Workplace conflicts often sound familiar, but any resemblance to specific people or organizations is purely coincidental.

Today's story comes from someone we'll call Frustrated Fred, who writes, I was working as a project manager for a dotted line manager. In other words, he was my manager for the project, but not for performance rating purposes. I'm going to call him William.

Each week during our one on one I would ask William for feedback. He would tell me I was doing great and say that he had no feedback. Then I got my official mid year performance review from my direct manager.

I'll call her Cindy. I was given anonymous feedback around three topics that I knew could only have come from William. That's not so anonymous, I guess.

Karen: 00:01:51

No.

Kendra: 00:01:52

While Cindy won't confirm or deny that it was William who gave the feedback, I am certain it was because we are required to submit five names that all managers reach out to. Of the five I submitted, William is the only one who would have this context.

Hmm, Cindy said she asked the provider of the feedback if they were willing to share their identity and they said no. I'm beyond frustrated for a few reasons.

First, I always try to improve my skills and and the feedback isn't clear enough for me to understand how to improve. I don't really understand what he actually wants and how it's different from what I've been doing.

I asked Cindy clarifying questions and she can't answer any of them. So I don't know what actions I should take to actually meet his expectations in the future.

Second, Cindy says she doesn't agree with most of the feedback and has even seen several examples in our time together that are the exact opposite of this feedback.

Karen: 00:02:39

Interesting.

Kendra: 00:02:40

Finally, Cindy says she's obligated to include the feedback as part of the mandatory performance documentation process. So this is now part of my permanent record, and I wasn't given a chance to discuss or improve it before it was added to my file.

I've asked for feedback every week and wasn't told any of this.

I might think this is because he doesn't like giving feedback, but then he would regularly go through my communications and slides and give me feedback that was super helpful. So I don't understand. I don't understand why William didn't talk to me directly, especially when I gave him ample opportunity.

We work in the US And William is from a different country, so I'm not sure if that might be relevant here.

I don't have a lot of experience working internationally, but I know each country can be a little different in terms of workplace culture, so I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it. Either way, I'm so frustrated, and I have to keep working for him for at least the next six months.

I think I'm going to talk to him about it and see what I can figure out, but I don't really know where to go from here or even how to approach it.

Karen: 00:03:38

All right, thank you for reaching out, Fred, for our listeners. Before we continue, we are going to play some music for you and invite you to briefly pause the podcast and ask yourself some questions.

For example, what do you think are the problems here? What are the biggest risks if you do nothing? And what specific changes would you like to see which would indicate improvement?

If you were in this situation, We.

Kendra: 00:04:08

Hope you had a chance to reflect on how you might handle this situation. Karen and I would like to start by reflecting on what we're hearing from Fred.

I think the biggest thing here is that he is reporting to multiple people at the same time.

Karen: 00:04:19

It does add some complexity. Yes.

Kendra: 00:04:22

Matrix reporting has, like, never been my favorite thing. He wants to grow. I'm hearing a really strong growth mindset in him, which I think is really great.

Karen: 00:04:31

I do, too. He wants that feedback. He's genuinely looking for it. And that's a great sign, right?

Kendra: 00:04:37

Our people looking for it. Do they want it? And he does. So great.

Karen: 00:04:41

I feel bad for him, too, because he's receiving good feedback. He is. And then he's getting this complete surprise on his review.

So, yeah, that's no fun to get a surprise, especially when you were already getting what seemed like good feedback. Seemed to him like it was good feedback.

Kendra: 00:04:55

Yeah. And it sounds. It sounds like he was learning on his communications and his slides and really learning a lot.

So I'm wondering how this feedback is different from that. He didn't really go into the details about it, but I'm wondering if it's more behavioral based and it seems less.

There could be a lot of reasons that William is not giving that feedback directly to Fred. And so I think we'll need to talk through those in the conflict resolution. Yeah.

Karen: 00:05:18

I do really feel for him. You want to have a voice and an impact on what goes on your review.

And it's going into a system that other managers and HR might well be able to see that too. So it's a little bit higher stakes than him having a conversation and getting told that it sounds good.

And then here at the end of the year, it's like, oh, well, you do have some room for improvement now it's going in the system as well. And that's something different.

Kendra: 00:05:40

And yeah, because it could impact his future promotions, his pay, and that's a huge thing.

Karen: 00:05:48

Could. Because this is information that he really didn't have any control over. And to some extent you don't.

When you get that feedback, you don't have control over what they're going to say. Exactly. But I think he's really wishing that he had gotten some feedback sooner because he genuinely wants the feedback.

He's wishing that he had gotten something more specific than, hey, you're doing a great job. And. And then he gets this negative feedback and it goes in his review. So here he is going, what could I have done?

Kendra: 00:06:16

Right? And. And without having any opportunity to try to address it ahead of time.

Karen: 00:06:21

Exactly.

Kendra: 00:06:21

Which I think is like a really critical call out to managers, which we'll dive into later. But you should not be putting anything in a review for your employees that you have not already talked with them about at least one time.

Totally agree. Seems like maybe this is a good time to pivot to the short answer. What do you think?

Karen: 00:06:37

Let's do it.

Kendra: 00:06:37

All right, so in this podcast, we like to give you a short answer for anyone who wants to get right to the point.

We do hope you'll stay around because we are going to share our thoughts and opinions from a variety of perspective throughout the rest of the podcast. And we have a lot of great things to talk about today for those who need to leave. Here is our Short answer.

In an ideal world, we would love to see Fred first process his emotions because there's a lot of anger there.

We would recommend he'd not reach out to William because he's made it clear that he wants the feedback to be anonymous and so any outreach will probably be damaging. We want to recommend that he try to get more clarity through his direct manager, Cindy, and ask for her support as he's navigating that.

Fred, we encourage you to incorporate meditative and physical relaxation tools.

Make sure that you're not posturing in a defensive way when you're asking for feedback, because some of the time those unconscious aspects can really impact the feedback that you're getting. Also, make sure you're asking more targeted feedback questions.

Learn about William's culture and feedback approach and try to ask in a way that he can hear you. For Cindy, we would recommend that she inject herself to advocate for her employee. Let Fred know that she's going to work on it.

Explain the employee questions and concerns to William and work with him on that.

Offer to facilitate a discussion or help William develop feedback skills, if appropriate, and collect feedback in more regular intervals from William so that Fred is not only hearing this one time at the end of the year performance review.

And for William, if you find yourself as a William in this situation, we recommend that you learn how to give feedback more regularly and more directly, really focusing more on that dotted line employee than on your own comfort and feelings. Okay, so shall we dive into the conflict resolution perspective?

Karen: 00:08:18

That sounds great.

Kendra: 00:08:20

I am seeing a few different conflicts here. Three in my perspective. One between Fred and William, one between William and Cindy, and one between Fred and Cindy.

Karen: 00:08:33

Lots of dynamics here for sure, if.

Kendra: 00:08:36

You'Re good with it. Karen, let's start by talking about the dynamic between William and Fred from a conflict resolution perspective.

Karen: 00:08:43

Yeah, let's do it.

Kendra: 00:08:44

This seems like, number one, Fred should not approach William. Like, I think that's. To me, that's really critical because William had said he wants to be anonymous. He seems conflict avoidant.

I don't know that he's going to respond. Well, if Fred approaches him and says, hey, I thought I asked you for feedback and you said that I was doing great.

And now I'm hearing that you're saying all this stuff, I think that that's going to go really badly.

Karen: 00:09:08

Right. Don't confront William about this.

Kendra: 00:09:11

Right. So I think that's like direction number one to Fred, in my opinion. Do not confront.

And then I think he also needs to process his feelings around this to really sit with those for a while.

And then I think it's reasonable for him to figure out how to navigate this going forward because they're going to be working together for a long time, at least six months, he said. And so he's got to make sure that that resentment is not there hindering his relationship with William.

And William probably has no idea this is even going on. He's probably over there oblivious because he gave anonymous feedback. Right, right, right.

For them to figure out how to navigate moving forward is valuable. Fred sounded very angry. He clearly wants to grow like he is somebody who has a natural growth mindset, wants to be growing and learning.

He's regularly asking for feedback, like, what a gift of an employee.

Karen: 00:10:02

Great for him for being willing to take feedback and being interested in that because that's going to bode well for his career. It's not always comfortable to take feedback. A lot of people don't like it. A lot of people don't like to give feedback either.

Particularly not William. It sounds like.

Kendra: 00:10:17

Yeah.

Karen: 00:10:18

And this is definitely a tough situation. And it hits that emotional level.

He really wants to be engaged in his work and his performance and he wants some agency and some voice in how he's rated. He doesn't feel like he had the opportunity to get that heads up about whatever it is William wanted to do him to do differently.

He didn't have that ability to control that. And he sounds willing to.

Kendra: 00:10:45

Yeah, that's a great point. And I think this is a really great time to call out to any managers.

Whether you're a direct manager or dotted line, you should never be putting anything in a performance review that you have not told that employee at least one time minimum before that performance review.

Karen: 00:11:02

Exactly.

Kendra: 00:11:04

Diving back into William and Fred, I am feeling like he's not going to talk to William about this. That's a bad idea. But maybe he needs to ask more questions.

Karen: 00:11:15

He does.

Kendra: 00:11:15

Fred said that William was giving him feedback about his emails and his decks, his PowerPoints. Right. So that tells me that William is open to giving certain kinds of feedback.

It makes me think that maybe some of the feedback he gave was more of a behavioral kind of feedback, like interjecting over a executive or something that's like more behavioral or situational. And so maybe that's the kind of feedback that William doesn't know how to give because it's more generic and not specific.

In an ideal world, Fred would not have to act this way and William would just be good at this. But it's not an ideal world.

And so if Fred could figure out better questions to bring to William to ask for the feedback, let's say that Fred heard he needs to be working on his presenting to people. Okay. So maybe he comes to William and he says, can you give me three things that you'd like me to do better?

And I think this ties into some of the stuff that you're going to talk about later.

But just asking the more direct questions and really being very specific with the type of feedback he's looking for, I think could help them move forward.

Karen: 00:12:19

Totally agree.

I think also another thing he could focus on is if he has regular meetings with William, if he can bring his updates to those meetings and say, here's what I've been working on this week, or any information that he can share about it.

So that's kind of a data approach, but if it is behavioral, he could even speak to some of that within the context of here's this project I was working on. You know, I gave a presentation to the executive team over in this other part of the company and you know, here's how that went.

Do you see it that way? He can really frame the conversation around what he's been accomplishing and see if he can get William talking about that and ask how he did.

A combination of putting his work in front of William on a regular basis and asking those good questions. Here's what I have coming up. Do you want me to keep working on these things? Is there anything else you want me to pivot to? Yeah, that sort of thing.

Kendra: 00:13:12

Yeah, I really like that.

And one thing I've heard you say in other contexts in the past is that you have to know the right amount of information to give somebody and that you can kind of see when it's too much or too little and adjust accordingly. And I think that for some people, that might be harder than others.

So it might be worth just calling out that when you're giving these updates, it's really critical to give the right amount of information.

Knowing that I think is just really watching body language, watching engagement, making sure people aren't, you know, just like typing or looking away, getting distracted. If they are, you're probably giving too much information.

If you are giving too little, I think you typically know because people actually ask you more questions because they'll want to know. That might be just a helpful trick for anyone in that situation.

Karen: 00:13:56

Yeah, watched for the glazed over manager. Right. You're giving too much.

I think also sometimes when you give your manager more information that they want, I think a Lot of them will actually say, I don't need that and that. And that all I need is xyz. I don't need all of this other stuff too.

Kendra: 00:14:17

So any other thoughts on William and Fred before we move to the other two conflicts we're seeing?

Karen: 00:14:22

Let's move on.

Kendra: 00:14:23

Okay. The other one I see here that's I think really critical is the one between Cindy and Fred because she is his manager.

And so even if he, he didn't seem to be assigning any blame to her in his outreach. And I'm not trying to encourage him to feel spiteful towards her.

And also I think that there can be a subconscious or unconscious feeling of betrayal or a lack of feeling of support because managers jobs, that part of their job is to be there for their employees. And she's not really advocating for him.

Karen: 00:14:58

Yeah, it sounds like she's not.

It sounds like she is someone who is friendly and I don't get any vibes from this that he feels like she's rating him negatively or, you know, is rude or working against him specifically or something like that. Right. So not sure if she's seeing his performance as favorable. Although maybe, maybe she did say that.

Kendra: 00:15:24

She did say that she disagreed with.

Karen: 00:15:27

Okay, okay, so she disagreed. At least she's. That's what she says.

Kendra: 00:15:30

Right.

Karen: 00:15:31

So hopefully she's not a conflict avoidant person with Fred.

Kendra: 00:15:38

Yes.

Karen: 00:15:38

Because that could be as well. But hopefully she is feeling positive about his contributions and she is someone who will advocate for him.

Kendra: 00:15:49

Yeah.

And if she's his direct manager, she's probably the person in the room when they're assigning ratings to people on that bell curve that they do in corporate America.

Karen: 00:15:59

It's a thing.

Kendra: 00:16:01

And so if she's the one in the room and she likes him and thinks he's doing positively and she's not just sugarcoating things, then I think that's really great for him and that'll probably be what matters most.

But I just think it's really important for him to maintain that relationship with her but be really clear about what he needs from her and ask for the support that he needs.

Karen: 00:16:22

Right. I totally agree.

He's going to want to talk with Cindy and hopefully she'll let her observations prevail in swaying that rating toward her more favorable inclinations. And hopefully it's not everything's already in there set in stone and maybe she's got some ability to, to tweak some of that.

The, the ratings might be already in there since they're sitting down and Talking about them. But. But maybe not. I, I don't know what their system is like for interim ratings.

Kendra: 00:16:53

Right.

Karen: 00:16:53

I think some places have a process where you sit down and talk to the employee first about the ratings and get their input and then you lock them into the system. It would be super nice if that's the, the situation here. But we don't know.

Cindy could also potentially, if it's still open for editing, maybe the scores are not open for editing, but maybe the comments are.

Maybe she can edit comments to kind of draw a little bit of distance there between what she is his hardline manager is saying and then the other feedback to indicate these are from other sources. Yeah.

Kendra: 00:17:25

Yeah. That's a great idea.

So the last conflict that I'm seeing here to kind of pivot over there is I think probably the least confrontational one, but the one between Cindy and William. And the reason that I see this as a conflict is because William is not giving the feedback to Fred that he's giving to Cindy.

And so he's creating conflicts for Cindy in her delivery of that information. And he clearly it's not good at giving feedback or at least he is afraid something. Right. There's something there.

And so we don't know if they're peers or if she's more senior or he is. But it feels like if she has the opportunity to coach him, assuming she's good at this herself, it could be valuable.

Karen: 00:18:13

Yeah. I totally agree. And she's right. She's in the middle of this.

Kendra: 00:18:17

Yeah.

Karen: 00:18:18

And I think it's super interesting that William wants to be anonymous.

Kendra: 00:18:22

Yeah. And he said that twice.

Karen: 00:18:23

What's that about? Yeah. As a manager.

Kendra: 00:18:27

Uh huh. It definitely feels fear driven to me.

Karen: 00:18:30

Uh huh.

Kendra: 00:18:31

Yeah.

Karen: 00:18:32

I think that's unusual that another manager would want to remain anonymous. So I agree with you that this sounds fear based. Kind of interesting.

Kendra: 00:18:44

I think that there's a world where she understands the impact of Fred and how it might impact his work going forward.

She could go back to William and say something like, you know, it's really bothering Fred that he didn't get this feedback from the person who gave it. And I think it would be really valuable for you to have these conversations with him.

Would you be okay if I set up a meeting and help facilitate that or something along those lines.

Like I think that that could be a world where maybe William, if he were a little open minded, might be willing to change his perspective if he understands the damage and impact of Fred.

Karen: 00:19:19

I kind of just want Cindy to try that.

Kendra: 00:19:22

Yeah. I know. Feels like it could be a good option.

Karen: 00:19:24

It does. I hope she will. I hope that that's something that, that she would be willing to do.

Kendra: 00:19:30

Yeah. Well, are you ready to pivot over to hr?

Karen: 00:19:34

Yes. Okay, let's talk about the HR person here. Yeah, yeah, just the HR perspective. I have this already go forward type of thought about.

Okay, well there's your interim and is in fact sort of locked in there. I think the HR person for the organization is probably going to say this is just an interim review.

You still have time to get in better shape for the year end review. And if other managers or HR people are looking at his reviews down the road, they're probably going to focus more on the year end comments.

I mean we don't know what system they're using for their performance management and how, how that appears but I think usually the comments are a little bit more of a dig down kind of thing versus if they have scores.

Kendra: 00:20:25

Yeah, I can totally understand why Fred is frustrated because when you work in the corporate world and your entire happiness comes from that goal at the end of the year of having a high score, which I am joking just to be clear to our listeners, I hope that that's not the only happiness you have in life. Oh my gosh. Right, right. But it is a big thing, right.

You're working all year, especially if you're achieving kind of person and you're trying to meet goals.

And so when you get to the end of the year and you or even mid year any performance review and you find out that you're not doing what you thought you were doing, that can be a huge blow. It can impact your perspective, your motivation, your desire to continue to try, you know, like all these things.

And so I have a lot of empathy for Fred and Fred, I want to encourage you to level up your perspective. It is important to remember that this is just an interim review and this is not the end all be all like this.

A lot of the times when you're going for another job internally, managers aren't even going to pull your actual review because in a lot of companies they don't actually have access to them. Depends on the company and the system and everything. But a lot of the times they don't.

And so they actually have to go to the other manager that you're currently reporting to to get that information. And a lot of the times they just want to know that number like where are you at in the performance track?

Karen: 00:21:47

Right.

Kendra: 00:21:47

Because maybe that's all that matters. And to them there Might be situations where you're neck and neck and so they get the reviews and they look at them and things like that can happen.

But I feel like it's really important to just make sure that you're looking at this in the perspective of everything else you have the rest of the year. To Karen's point, even if they look at review notes, it's probably going to be the end of year one.

So this is just a small little scratch in the grand scheme of everything that you're doing.

Karen: 00:22:17

Agreed. I have something to say about interim reviews since this topic came up.

Okay, here's my favorite, not favorite goofy thing that comes up in interim reviews.

I've heard managers say, employee, I gave you these lower, these lower scores because we are halfway through the year and you couldn't possibly be meeting or exceeding your goals and be doing fantastically well because it's not the end of the year. The deliverable is not done yet.

Kendra: 00:22:48

Interesting.

Karen: 00:22:49

So interesting.

Kendra: 00:22:51

I have not had that experience.

Karen: 00:22:52

I am not a fan of that approach.

Kendra: 00:22:55

No, at all.

Karen: 00:22:56

And I've talked to a lot of managers and employees about their concerns about low performance ratings because just having worked in the HR office, it seems to be a hot topic. You know, when it's that time of year, you're going to get these concerns, people are going to walk into the office or ping you or whatever.

And so I don't like that approach. I'm not a fan of it.

And if there's an HR person working on writing some process guidance for managers, it would probably be worth thinking about if you want to include something in that document about what is the nature of the interim review beyond just, hey, it's a quick mid year check in, which is great. I love an interim review. I think they're fantastic.

Actually, if you are going to have a year end review, having an interim is a great idea because it gives employees an idea of where they're at so far. Yeah, it is a spot where they will check in and have that conversation. And I love it.

And I have also heard managers say you got these low scores and that's just where you're at for now and not give them feedback. And that's a bummer also.

Kendra: 00:24:03

Yeah, I thought you were going to go down the path of using low scores to motivate people to work harder because I've definitely heard that happening. Yeah, Isn't that a weird one? Yeah, I don't like that one.

Karen: 00:24:14

No. Thank you for mentioning that one. Oh my gosh, I don't like that.

Kendra: 00:24:18

One either there's so many logical fallacies in regards to performance scores and ratings and that. I mean this is. People have written books about this stuff, so it is. There's a lot of resources out there.

Karen: 00:24:31

I would love for maybe some of those nuggets to make their way into. Maybe not the policy handbook. It's probably. That's probably too down in the weeds for that.

ending, you know, do you have: 2000

Kendra: 00:24:47

You know? Right.

Karen: 00:24:48

Depends.

Kendra: 00:24:49

Well, speaking of the policy, I am wondering if this company has policies built into how matrix managers feedback is incorporated. It could be that they just have to provide feedback to the direct manager. Or maybe there's not.

It sounds like maybe there's no official process since Fred had to provide the five names that he was getting feedback from. Seems like maybe that is the process and there's really no other specific matrix manager.

Karen: 00:25:16

Oh, and poor Fred. He probably thought William was going to say good things about it.

Kendra: 00:25:19

Yeah, yeah. I mean he only picked five people out of everyone he's working with.

So assuming he works with a lot more than five people, he probably chose the ones that would make him look good. He thought I would think so.

Karen: 00:25:30

I wonder how many dotted line managers he has because if William is sort of a main one, that puts a lot more weight behind what William is saying. Yeah, but if he's got five other managers, then gosh, that would be terrible.

Kendra: 00:25:44

You know, I hope he doesn't. Oh man. Yeah, poor, poor Fred. Well, the other thing I was thinking about from an HR perspective is just a really.

We kind of mentioned this in passing, but I really want to call out that Cindy's core manager priority is making sure that her employee has transparency and no surprises on the performance review. So that might be extra work for her when she has a. An employee that has a dotted line or seven dotted line managers.

So I think it's really important that she's doing that.

Karen: 00:26:17

I totally agree. I would add for the HR person, hopefully they have enough bandwidth to go and check on this because maybe Cindy is super busy.

Probably the HR person is also super busy. That's just kind of the way things are typically. Right.

So if the HR person is not so swamped that they could go and look at the situation and maybe William can get some encouragement to give honest feedback, transparent feedback in a timely manner. A lot of times that's where HR can be a little bit behind the scenes.

Maybe there's an HR person who's got a weekly check in meeting with William and can talk to him in a way that won't put him on the defensive, that doesn't bring up the situation specifically. And maybe they can just say, how did interim reviews go?

Are you giving specific feedback so that people can take action on any concerns that you might have?

Kendra: 00:27:16

Yeah, I like that. Any other thoughts on HR before we pivot to psychology?

Karen: 00:27:22

No, I am ready to pivot if you are too.

Kendra: 00:27:25

I am.

Karen: 00:27:26

Okay.

Kendra: 00:27:27

So from my perspective, Psychology Today that we're going to talk about is all related to feedback for me, from my. My what I'm bringing to the table.

Karen: 00:27:37

Here, it's a whole skill set. I like that you mentioned that books have been written on it.

Kendra: 00:27:41

Oh, yeah.

Karen: 00:27:42

Lots of material out there. Everybody's got opinions about giving and receiving feedback.

Kendra: 00:27:48

So my favorite resource that I like to look to is Brene Brown. She wrote a book called Dare to Lead. She wrote many books, but one of her leadership books is Dare to Lead.

And she has this analogy that if you are on the opposite side of the table from someone when you're giving them feedback, then you're putting the problem between you. And so it's never going to have a great solution because you're not actually communicating together to work towards solving that problem.

So if instead you visualize coming over to the same side of the table, putting the problem on the table in front of you so that you're both working towards solving that problem. And I really like that because I think it really talks about the humility that you need to approach giving feedback with.

And giving feedback is really hard for people.

And so, like, I'm kind of approaching this from William's perspective first because that's kind of where a lot of this conflict is, stemming from his lack of willingness to give the feedback that he needs to give. I think it's really important to understand your goals going into that conversation.

And then one of the first trainings that I ever went through as a manager, they had this phrase that's commonly used, situation, behavior, impact, question. And a lot of people use that. And I really liked it. And that's kind of stuck with me. That's kind of how I approach giving feedback.

I just try to do it from a really. A place of humility. I think that's really important. Okay.

So that's the perspective of giving feedback, really approaching without humility, being on the same side of the table and understanding your goals going into that conversation. Then I also want to talk to Fred about receiving feedback because feedback is hard, even if you want it. It's challenging.

I know personally I've struggled with perfectionism in the past and so I didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't perfect, which is ridiculous because nobody is perfect. It took me years and it's something I'm still working on day.

But it's something that you know where you need to approach with the right mindset, where you're wanting to learn and grow. You might say that, but then maybe deep down you're just hoping that you're getting positive feedback.

And I think it's really important that you understand that you are not going to see everything. You're not going to be perfect. You have to be humble and be open when you're asking for that feedback.

And then the other thing that I think is really challenging for people when they're receiving feedback is just arguing with the feedback that they get. It can be really easy to be like, well, no, that's not what I meant. So you should always start by saying thank you. When you get the.

You ask for the feedback. You get the feedback and you always say thank you. Never argue. If you want to ask clarifying questions about the feedback.

Never start with the word why. Why puts people on the defensive, so you want to avoid that. And then I'm also, I'm with Fred in his case.

I'm wondering how his body language is because it's possible that if he has those underlying feelings where he doesn't want constructive feedback, maybe he's a little tense. Maybe it's a little bit obvious to William that he is feeling protective. Right. So watch your body language.

Try, you know, rolling your shoulders up and then relax him down. Take a few deep breaths to, to ground yourself. Maybe put the tongue on the roof of your mouth behind your teeth.

Really approach that feedback with the body stance and the mindset and all of the things that you need to actually get the feedback that you want.

Karen: 00:31:14

It was doing the shoulder thing while you're. It's really nice talking through that. It is.

Kendra: 00:31:21

So I think, Karen, you are going to talk to us about requesting feedback.

Karen: 00:31:27

Yes.

Kendra: 00:31:27

I saw that you had some really great articles.

Karen: 00:31:29

I do, yeah. They're in the show notes. So anyone looking for those, they'll be there for you.

But talking about how to get accurate feedback, Harvard Business Review has some great articles over the years. I just really like them as a source for so many things workplace related.

And they'll typically be available for kind of limited accessibility or even behind a paywall. So you could pay for the article or you could check with your local library to see if they have the issues of those articles.

Also you can just google for articles. Sometimes organizations will have them and will post them on their website.

So for example, there's an article from HBR called Making Yourself Indispensable. That's one of my favorites because it has a great list of questions for feedback which you can kind of adapt a bit to your situation.

But it appears to also be posted by a group called Women Unlimited where they've downloaded the article and posted the PDF. So I actually put that in the show notes. You can read it from there as long as they have it up and looks like it's been up for a long time.

So hopefully you can at least read it there. It's a good article.

It doesn't have a lot of questions in it, but it's got a lot of good food for thought and it's got a short list of powerful questions. And then another one is called how to ask for Feedback that will actually help you and that is in the show notes. Take a look at those.

One more I put in the show notes was a Forbes article. It talks about leadership seeking feedback, but it also has some good questions in there that can be used for non management too.

It's from the perspective of hey, I'm a manager, how do I get feedback from my senior management and so forth.

So Fred, when you talk to William in a one on one and you're not confronting him and saying hey, I felt really bad about that, I know it was you, like none, none of that, right? When you have your one on one with William though, make it clear, like Kendra said, that you're seeking to improve yourself.

And then ask some good questions like what skills do you think are strengths for me? What are you getting from me that you want more of? What are you getting from me that you want less of? What are you not getting from me that you want?

And is there anything I currently do that could lead me to worse performance ratings in my job if I don't change it, or just just worse performance in my job if I don't change it, that one might be a little bit more of a serious tone question that might put him a little bit on the defensive. But if the other ones are going well and you want to put that one out there, that might work.

And then if you respond to these questions in your conversation with William, you only get to ask clarifying questions, not explaining or getting defensive. So Kendra mentioned this already. Thank him for his feedback. And this is really from the spirit of these articles.

So, as we mentioned, there's multiple sources out there. Kendra's finding it from Brene Brown and from other sources. This one's coming from Forbes. So this is important guidance.

Kendra: 00:34:29

Yes, yes. Consistent guidance it is.

Karen: 00:34:31

So, yeah, thank him for his feedback. Don't explain or get defensive if he's got a response for you, because, hooray, he's giving you a response. Right.

And so just ask for simple clarifying questions if you need to, and you can always think it over and get back to him if you have other clarifying questions. And good feedback is supposed to be an ongoing process.

So I talked about how much I love an interim review process, which I do, but throughout the year is important so that it's ongoing.

And then the only thing I would add here is I feel like we could really put together some kind of blooper reel showing some of the many ways we think we've done a good job of asking for feedback but have obviously not asked the good questions or maybe not in the right setting. I just see it everywhere. Do you just see that all the time just because we're kind of tuned into that issue?

Kendra: 00:35:22

Yes, it's. People in general avoid conflict throughout life. And so unless the.

The setting is correct, the timing is right, the tone is correct, the body language is not defensive or attacking, you're not going to get an honest answer. It's like with a spouse, right? Asking their spouse like, oh, do I look good in this dress?

Or whatever, and they're like, okay, do I want to have a fight that, you know, derails the night? Or like, I mean, that's just a silly example, but I mean, there's so many things like that. And so it's so much easier to just say, oh, yeah, sure.

I think sure is like the one that I hear all the time.

Karen: 00:35:59

Oh, sure.

Kendra: 00:36:00

Or yeah. You know, it's just the simple thing that people can say to avoid any sort of conflict and avoid giving any sort of real feedback.

Karen: 00:36:08

Right.

I think that sure is something that is a sign that that person doesn't want to engage in whatever conversation they think might be coming next, whether they think it's going to be a heated conversation or whether they're just like, I'm tired.

You know, I've been working 10 hours today already at this grocery store or whatever, and this customer is going on about something and I'm just gonna smile and nod because they don't want to get into the conversation that they're worried or they just don't have emotional bandwidth for it. It's so many examples.

Kendra: 00:36:40

Yes. I have a personal one. So I am a. An active kind of person who likes to do a lot of things all the time. And my husband is very much an introvert.

Likes to stay home and watch tv. And so the first several years that we were together, I would be like, oh, we should go to this party or we should go do this thing.

And he would be like, yeah, sure. And I thought that meant yes, because to me, if you reply in the affirmative, that made that means that you're making a commitment to me.

We are going out to this party this weekend.

Karen: 00:37:13

Right.

Kendra: 00:37:13

And so it was only after, like, years and years. And finally I learned, like, it's so dense because you're just in it and you're not like, thinking about it and you're like, oh, yeah, he said sure.

And then I'm like, why is he so upset that we're going to this party? Like, I thought he said sure, you know, and it wasn't until years into it, and then I was like, wait a second.

Like, when you say sure, does that mean. And then. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that means I don't really want to go, but, like, I'm just trying to appease you.

And so my daughter says this for me phrase. Surprisingly unsure of realistic expectations.

Karen: 00:37:44

Oh, I love that so much.

Kendra: 00:37:45

I think that's what it is. And so that's kind of now what sure stands for in our family.

So if somebody says sure, you need to go in, double click, and then work to figure it out.

Karen: 00:37:55

Oh, man, that's so good. I love that you thought of that and shared it. Oh, my goodness.

Kendra: 00:38:02

So on that note, shall we close it out for today?

Karen: 00:38:04

Yeah. Ask the good questions, don't be defensive, and thank the person for their feedback.

Kendra: 00:38:09

Yeah. In the right timing, timing. So so many subtleties, Karen. How can everyone know all this stuff?

Karen: 00:38:15

It's challenging to be human sometimes. It really is.

Kendra: 00:38:19

I know.

All right, well, today we heard from Fred, who has consistently asked for feedback from his dotted line manager and has been told that he's been doing great. Then he gets his formal review from his direct manager and has a lot of improvements needed listed.

We encourage Fred to self reflect, engage in physical exercises like deep breathing and other activities to remove any tension while asking for feedback to help William feel safe.

He should also avoid discussing this with William directly, but maybe ask his manager to act as an intermediary since William has clearly requested anonymity. It's also important that Fred, start to move past this and let go and really work to provide clear and specific requests for feedback to William.

We hope that the next time you're given the opportunity to give feedback, you'll approach with humility and a genuine desire to resolve the problem together.

When you're receiving feedback, even if you asked for it, your fears and underlying sentiments can cause you to appear tense or defensive, potentially discouraging people from giving you the feedback that you really want. So do your best to manage your emotions, get the timing right, breathe deeply, help you manage those feelings, and ask the right questions.

We hope you leave this chat with some tips that you can use if you ever encounter a similar situation.

Karen: 00:39:32

All of the resources we've referenced in the podcast can be found in the show Notes Notes. Please let us know your thoughts, ideas and questions.

Also, if you'd like to hear our thoughts about a workplace conflict scenario you're facing, reach out to us and we might include it in the podcast. We want to hear from you. Check out our website at thehrmediators.com or email us at thehrmediators gmail.com thank you.

Kendra: 00:39:52

For joining us on the HR Mediators. Stay curious, stay kind, and stay brave. You've got this and we'll see you next time.

Karen: 00:40:01

Sam.